Ben: The younger generations now are going to have to be very good at reinventing themselves and adapting to reality, which is changing all the time at a speed that we’ve never, ever known before.
Ben: Hey, thanks for listening. We’ve been starting, growing and leading businesses for over 50 years between us. Along the way, we’ve met lots of amazing people doing the same. We started to collect their wisdom, things they’d seen, real experiences that had taught them something, things they’d read that had inspired, and things they’d learned, the principles they’ve applied in growing their businesses. We call these Founder Hacks — the real experiences of real entrepreneurs growing real businesses. And this podcast is to share them with you. Welcome to Founder Hacks.
Ben: Hello and welcome to another episode of Founder Hacks, our podcast where we like to cogitate, ruminate and wonder at the amazing stories we collect and curate from our own modest lives in the world of building businesses, and from those wonderful people that we come across doing the same thing. Let me start by saying hello to Antony Enright. Antony, what have you been up to? What’s going on with you?
Antony: Yeah, busy week this week — planning days with a couple of organisations back to back, which is always a challenge because you want to focus on one company, and then you do that, and then immediately the following day you’re back into another company. But working with some great people who are just wanting to spend some time thinking about what’s next.
Ben: Amazing. Lots of juicy Founder Hacks to harvest, I’m sure. Alexander Moore, welcome — tell us something interesting about your week.
Alex: Yeah, it’s been a good one. Been photographing slabs of meat. Slabs of venison.
Ben: New hobby?
Alex: Yeah, it’s a little startup I’m involved with. Everyone getting together — chefs, lights, different dishes being put in front of us and photographing — and just that energy, that buzz of a startup. I love it.
Ben: Amazing stuff. I must admit, I love that moment of creation, where you sort of go — oh, it’s a real thing. Very, very cool. Yes, a glorious, privileged experience we get to have. So this week we’ve put together our Founder Hacks — our little nuggets of learning, in three ways: real experiences, things we’ve read, and things we’ve learned. And we came up with a bit of a theme this week, which is that tomorrow ain’t gonna be today. We live in such a fast-changing world that all of our stories today sort of relate to those things that are changing so super quick, and perhaps our intuition about what tomorrow is going to look like needs to change. Maybe that’s the learning we’ve been taking, right? What do you think, chaps — is that fair, where we got to?
Alex: Yeah — I’m not sure we said ‘not today,’ though — sorry, sorry, tomorrow is not today. I like it.
Ben: All right, well, let’s crack on. Let’s crack on. Today, I believe we start off with something Alexander Moore has seen in the big wide world.
Alex: Yeah, I’ve seen it. It’s a little favourite website I’ve had for years and years and years, which sort of trundles along and is a good point of reference for things. And I’m sure you guys and most of our listeners have heard of it — it’s called Pinterest. I’m a big fan of Pinterest. It’s just nice and simple. I put little boards together when I’m wanting to do stuff, on personal stuff and business things. And I was reading about ‘AI slop’ — this expression that’s been bouncing around a bit. And I didn’t really understand what it was. Pinterest was nicely plodding along, very mature business. And suddenly this unforeseen consequence of AI is that people are uploading all these AI images of various things rather than uploading photographic examples of real things. So the example I saw was — show me a bedroom with black curtains — and Pinterest will provide all these images, and over half are now AI-generated images of rooms that AI has generated to show you what a bedroom with black curtains looks like. It means you’re going there to see visual references of real things, but you’re not. And it’s kind of breaking the site a bit, and people are really up in arms about it. And it just makes me think, as a founder — oh my god, you’re plodding along, it’s great, we’ve gone through startup, we’ve gone through the difficult teenage pimply years, and now look at us, we’re looking really mighty fine — and then boom, this unforeseen consequence comes. And I love Oscar Wilde quotes, and he says life imitates art far more than art imitates life. And you think — wait a minute, what’s reality now? And how, as a founder, do you prepare for this thing that’s come out of nowhere? So that’s my scene. Thoughts, gentlemen — I’d love to debate that with you.
Ben: You look keen to say something, mate.
Antony: Well, it’s something that really resonated with me — in a recent session with a team, I was asking some questions and they were using AI to answer them. My immediate gut reaction was, no, no, no, I want your answer, I don’t want AI’s answer. But then I was left pondering — a little bit with your example — is it okay if it’s inspiring? If the AI picture with the black curtains inspires you to create something that hasn’t already been physically created in our world, is that okay? I appreciate there’s backlash on the site because that’s not the intention of the site. But if the AI answer started to inspire them to think differently and think about other ideas, then is that okay? So my question back to you, Alex — is it okay that the black curtains in the room have been generated by something that isn’t real yet?
Alex: It’s a tough one. Ben, why don’t you feed back first and then I’ll try and loop it together at the end.
Ben: I guess I go one way — does it matter? If it matters, why does it matter? What’s clear is there’s totally unknown consequences we’re going to have to lean into here. It’s also — is it something we can actually have any control of at all? Is that even a realistic thing to contemplate? I’m reminded of that expression — why worry, can you control it? No. Why worry — worry is not the right reaction, maybe paying attention is the right reaction, because frankly we ain’t going to change it. So does it matter? I don’t know, what do you think, Alex?
Alex: For me, the answer lies in — if it was 10 or 20 percent of all the images when you go to your room for inspiration, that’s okay. But when it starts to really consume it — 60, 70 percent of images — that’s the thing I read, this is distorting reality, and that’s where checks and balances in life can help. Of course I’m not saying ban AI — how would Pinterest do it — but maybe there needs to be some kind of filtering system on there. I’m not sure how that would work.
Ben: What are you thinking here?
Antony: Yeah, I’m just interested — it’s the knowing, isn’t it. We’ve got to know where it’s come from. So it’s okay if it’s AI-generated, but tell me. Let’s talk some more later — because I definitely think there’s something here about — I think the discomfort correlates with where you are in life, and I think we might find out, I’ll share some stories in a minute, because I do think there are other trends going on that could really impact that.
Ben: Sorry, what were you going to say?
Antony: Yes — I think it’s about really earmarking and understanding — so I had an example recently where somebody sent me a plan for a session, and actually I thought there were some inaccuracies in it. Now they didn’t say the plan had come from AI, they just said, here’s the plan I’ve been working really hard on, what do you think? And because there were inaccuracies in it, I really didn’t like this, because I was then going, this doesn’t sound like you. And the cynical side of me was like — have you used AI for this? So I asked the question, and the answer was yes. And I was like, I don’t have a problem that you’ve used AI for it, but I would like to know. So again, with the Pinterest thing — it’s like, tell me, so I know where it’s coming from — is this your thought, is this something you’ve created and made a picture of, or is it something that’s been generated by a bot. I think we’re going to learn so much about this really quickly. But for the moment, for me, I’d want to know where it’s come from — is it your thought or is it a bot’s thought.
Ben: Hard to police that one when it relies on people.
Antony: Well, you can ask, can’t you.
Alex: Yeah, yeah — there could be legislation, guys. We better move on, we could talk about this for hours, I’m sure. But again, I think it’s going to be relevant — I’ve read something, can’t wait to share it with you, because I think it will inform this debate. So I’ve recently resubscribed to The Economist, which again we’ve mentioned a few years ago on Founder Hacks — something we felt was a really interesting way to get your news, being that they tend towards the more in-depth, thoughtful articles rather than sound bites. The article I read was called ‘Gen X is the real loser generation,’ which I thought was quite funny — there was a moment of, hang on, what’s all this — but it was a really interesting article, looking at people through this generational lens, and how the different generations have fared in the world of work and the economy. And it prompted lots of thoughts — I know generational boundaries are quite a crude way to divide people into groups. But what I really took from it is this reminder that the expectations of the people coming into our businesses, that our businesses are interacting with, are often wildly different from those we grew up with ourselves — our parents, or the generations above us, were wildly different: their experiences were different, their motivations and drivers were different, what was achievable is different. And I think it’s such an important thing to think about when you’re working out how you reward your people, how you appreciate them, how you set goals, how you motivate — because it can be really different between different generations. A couple of examples to illuminate it: the Gen X generation, probably one of the last generations for whom home ownership was a massive goal. Millennials did it somewhat. But with Gen Z, Gen Alpha, and soon to be Gen Beta, the expectation is actually that ownership is going to be a lot less motivational, because it’s so far off and so aspirational for so many of those generations. The concentration of wealth into older generations, the challenges around the markets — so motivating people, saying, well, if you do these things, if you save this money, if you behave in this way, you’ll get this outcome, may not be true. And we base that on our assumptions from our own past and history. The other example I thought was fascinating was that what was considered a necessity for the previous generation, and was cheap — for example, the rent you’d pay for the house you lived in as a young person would be fairly cheap, 25 percent of your income back in the day. These days, Gen Z, Gen Alpha, as they’re leaving their parental homes, can expect to be paying 60 to 70 percent of their income on that. Just a shock, right? Just a shocker. So if you’re someone who says to a young person, hey, just stop buying that cup of coffee every day and you could save a deposit for a house — it’s not just wrong, it is so laughable and insulting, because you’ve ignored the enormous change in circumstance. You’ve got to be really careful, and you can really disengage young people, or different generations, if you don’t have a moment to go — actually my god, their tomorrow is not going to be like our today.
Ben: I thought it was really interesting, Mr Enright, go — it’s really interesting.
Antony: I’ve had a few examples recently where I’m coaching individuals who are asking for pay rises — outside of the scope of the structure and process for appraisals and pay rises. And the reaction they’re getting — I have to be honest, I resonate with that reaction when I first hear it, and I’m trying to avoid my — but of course judgment comes in — and then I just ask the questions, as you would do as a coach — why are you asking — and then you start to unpeel it, and it’s exactly what you said, Ben — I’ve just had a rent increase and I can’t afford it. So actually, for me, it’s about — we need to understand, we need the knowledge, we need the learning. So quite simply — does your boss know that? You need to get data, not opinion — something Alex taught me a very long time ago that’s stayed with me ever since. Break it down. And I think — because it’s outside of scope, it’s eight months away, you’re not long after having a pay review, but your circumstances have changed — you need to break it down and inform the decision-maker as to why you’re asking for this. Because for the generation I share with you, Ben, when you come up and talk about pay rises as bosses, as owners, the eyes go to heaven — they just want more money. It’s like — let’s share the data, let’s share why. And then when they break it down, and talk about those 60 to 70 percent of income on rent — I mean, Ben, you and I are of that generation, Alex not far off — my first mortgage was £110,000. So for me it’s about empowering those generations coming through to understand why they might be getting the reaction they are over asking for a pay rise, but then being able to empower them to go to their boss and explain and share that information and knowledge — here are the figures, this is different.
Ben: Such a challenge though, owning a business — because you just want people to come in and, at a very simple level, do their job, do it really well. But now we’ve got to really understand and take on what struggles they have and how we can support them with that.
Antony: Yeah, yeah. And again it picks up on the point earlier, right — because on top of that, as Alex was saying, we have all these expectations now being projected into people’s minds, and expectations that may not even be for real — the house you live in, what you should be able to access, is a projected AI image, a creation or invention, a bot talking about what you should be able to do, what you should be able to access. So it’s a really challenging thing.
Ben: I sort of bring you in because your AI story above I think has got relevance here — when 60 percent of the images on Pinterest are not real, and yet that’s what our customers, our staff, our people are looking at to assess us. Well, I think — we talked about tomorrow is not today, but this is more — I think Antony’s example makes me think this: today suddenly changes on you. And you’re like, oh my god, I can’t see this coming — my rent’s being put up, or this fundamental thing has happened to my business because of an unforeseen consequence of AI, which was going to make life so much better. And I think that’s where life’s so difficult, and that ability to adapt — I do like Conor McGregor when he talks about acknowledge, acknowledge, adapt, overcome. And I think this accepting reality quickly, and then — what am I going to do about it — and having the conversations to restructure your life quickly and reinvent yourself quickly. I think that’s where the younger generations now are going to have to be very good at dealing with this — reinventing themselves and adapting to reality, which is changing all the time at a speed we’ve never known before. Do you agree, mate?
Antony: Further to that — there’s an education piece, isn’t there. An education piece that needs to happen on both sides — those generations being able to educate the older generations who had it so differently. And for me, if we can empower them to make it clear that it’s not selfish, it’s not just I want more money because I want more money — no, it’s a very different environment. Where we can educate each other on the reality — I think, to Ben’s point, the reality they face is X, Y and Z, it’s hugely challenging, and there’s a lot of work for owners and founders to do to understand — because it feels different, I think the gap is bigger. So we’ve got to, as owners and founders, understand what challenges they have, see how we can make it easier, and how we can attract more of those generations to our business because we get it, and we can support people with that too. There is opportunity here, I feel.
Ben: There is. And we like to get practical, right, we like to get practical. So I think what I’m hearing from you both is — I mean it’s almost too banal — but listen. That’s the only thing you’ve got to — listen instead of telling. It’s a change in that dynamic. There was a time, perhaps in the workplace we grew up in, there was a lot of telling — what your career trajectory could look like, what you should want, what you should expect. It does feel like — I can vouch for experience in this — we should be listening a lot more attentively, and we should be consciously letting go of some of our little prejudices, biases and expectations. Would you agree, Antony, the master listener himself, the coach?
Antony: Yeah — I’m squirming here, because I had a freelancer working for me a few years ago, and I was so judgemental about the things they were asking, rather than being curious — the Walt Whitman quote about be curious, not judgemental. And I’m kind of squirming now, going — actually, hearing the stories today, and talking about it myself, it’s that reflection point of going — actually, if I was curious and just kept asking why, as I should do as a coach — but obviously being an owner, there are other pressures, other things going through your mind — but if we can be curious and really understand why that’s so important, rather than throwing the judgment at it.
Ben: We better crack on. We’re going deep today, guys, I’m loving it. Let’s find out what Antony has learned to bring all this together.
Antony: So what I’ve learned is what’s unique today in your business may not be unique tomorrow. There’s certain things, as you’re going from startup to scale-up — listen, there are so many ways of doing this, and for me it’s whatever works for you — but some of the things I work on with organisations are things like your purpose and your values. Once you’ve established those, I think they don’t really change too much, they’re almost set in stone. But as you’re looking to strategise about how you go from startup to scale-up, you need to start thinking about what differentiates us, what’s unique about our business. And what I’m learning more and more — there were a couple of examples this week — is what got you here won’t get you there. What got you to this point, and what differentiated you as a business — you’ve got to keep looking at, is that relevant now, has somebody caught up? The great example is FedEx — most of us are aware of who FedEx are, and how they differentiated from all the competition was next-day delivery. And then all of a sudden DHL, UPS, they all went — we’re behind, how do we do next-day delivery — and they worked out a way of doing it, which meant FedEx no longer had something unique. And what I’m really learning is — what can take you to the next level as an entrepreneur is if you’re really passionate about continuing to drive that uniqueness. We can call them unique selling points, or brand promises — but if you go, okay, we’ve delivered next-day, what’s next? While people are playing catch-up to get to next-day delivery, where do we think we’re going to go? And what I’ve learned is that customers have a lot of the answers for you — they’re going to tell you what’s next. Think about the evolution of the iPhone — if Apple were to say, okay, we’ve got to this point, now everybody’s playing catch-up, what’s next — as an iPhone user, I’ve got several things I want my iPhone to do next. If they ask me, I’ll tell them, whether it’s right or not that would have to be their judgment. So what I’m learning is what’s made unique today may not be unique tomorrow, and what do you need to do in order to keep moving that forward. Alex, what’s your thought process here?
Alex: I love what you were saying, that the customers have the answer — I totally agree, and I’d add something to it. I also think your colleagues can often have the answer. And strangely, it’s the junior, frontline people, in my experience. It’s not necessarily the people sitting around you in the boardroom, or your senior management — it’s, every day, day in day out, the ones dealing on the frontline of my business. Some of the best answers there — they can see, with different generations, cognitive diversity. History is littered with junior people who had a great idea, tried to get it to the management, and management didn’t want to listen. I think being a good listener, talking to lots of different people, and then stitching it all together — some of the best founders I’ve ever met are the ones who can stitch it all together. They’re the ones who’ve really impressed me. What do you think?
Ben: Oh yeah — it’s hard to disagree with that, I really agree. I’m reminded of the Simon Cowell story — the music producer — on a podcast I listened to relatively recently. Obviously a driven founder and entrepreneur, but what he realised, and how he got and continued his uniqueness, is he understood who had the knowledge about what was going on in the industry and in the music production company — it was the pool of receptionists. What would happen in the music company in the old days is they’d be taking the orders for albums — all the independent or big record stores would be phoning up ordering records to sell that week. And he would be best friends with all those people, and go in every day and go, what have you heard today, what’s happened. The story — there was an ITV programme called Soldier, Soldier, and two of the characters sang a particular song at the end of one episode. The following day he goes into the office, speaks to the people answering the phones, and they said, we’ve had a few phone calls already asking for this single from the show last night, people are already coming into stores asking for the single. So what did he do? He got that information, contacted the two people, had to persuade them, and made the single within about two weeks, I think, and it became number one — a record at the time for how many weeks it stayed number one — purely by speaking to the people who had knowledge about what was going on in the industry, and who were his colleagues. I guess a bit of a different — a build rather than a thing — because I don’t think customers do have the answer. I don’t — I think what customers have is the right question. So much of what is going to change in the world, I think, is about things that don’t exist, and the customer will be asking the question but won’t necessarily be able to give us the answer. And that’s where I think this shift is changing, because you’re having that depth of expertise in your market, really knowing your space, really knowing what the art of the possible might be — I don’t think we can outsource that to customers, actually. There’s a lovely quote that kind of links back to Alex’s as well — when I did my computer science degree, a very long time ago, which does not help me fix Windows, so please don’t get in touch about it — but on my first lecture, the professor came in, and this was quite a long time ago, but he said something that I think has never felt more relevant, which was that we will never truly understand the impact of any technology until it has all the glamour and allure of a pencil. And for me that’s — we won’t understand this stuff until it stops being sexy. It’s really interesting — one of the things, getting back to the generational debate — do you know what’s happening with Gen Zs and Gen Alphas? They’re disengaging from social media. Younger Gen Zs, Gen Alpha, and the bet is Gen Beta — they’re not going to care anymore, they’re not going to be paying attention to TikTok, they’re not going to be paying attention to these things, because they won’t be alluring anymore, they won’t be glamorous. So I think — again, when you talk about it in the business context — that cherished thing you invented, that you think is incredibly clever, it’s moments away from being about as sexy as a pencil. And if you recognise that, it’s like — get busy with the next brilliant thing right now — because everyone can have a pencil, right, and that thing that took you four years and seven million quid of investment, I’m also going to knock up on AI in 20 minutes, and it’s going to be cheaper and better than yours.
Antony: Ouch. Scary, but it is true.
Ben: Pencils were sexy once. They were once an amazing technology. But now — I think that’s going to be the future.
Antony: But final words, chaps — what are we saying, what are you doing in your businesses as a result of this, or in your coaching — what can we actually physically do, what’s the lesson?
Ben: Stay humble, be good at listening, read, and accept reality — accept things instead of fighting it. That’s what I’m reinforced by this conversation today, by the way.
Antony: Yeah, I think to build on that, I don’t disagree with any of that. I think it’s about being curious around what’s next — and to your point, Ben, I love the idea that the customers might have more questions, they don’t necessarily have the answers, but that can inspire you to think what’s next, as well as your colleagues. So I’m hoping I’m going to be more curious and less judgemental — when I hear something different, or that I’m not expecting, can I be curious to learn where that’s coming from.
Ben: Farewell. I shall, as always, given that we are at time, do my very best to summarise an incredible set of Founder Hacks. AI slop could be quietly defining our tomorrow — not just the transformation of our working world, but every aspect of our perception of reality is being touched by AI. What does this mean for tomorrow? What does this mean for the expectations of our teams, our customers, our investors, and all of the humans our businesses rely on? Life imitates art far more than art imitates life. And maybe, although we cannot know the end, it’s a big reminder to pay attention to the process. How do we keep up to date and realistic with the changing experiences of the next generations as they enter our workplace? What was once cheap necessity could now be the major source of anxiety — young people spending more of their income on rent than was ever thinkable when we grew up. Redouble that with expectations now being set by AI’s digital fantasy of life, not genuinely comparing to what others are experiencing. Again, maybe it’s a clarion call to remember to listen and let go of those long-held expectations. And finally, what’s unique today for your business may not be unique tomorrow. People will catch up, and tomorrow they’ll just catch up faster. For many, we’re learning that entrepreneurs are now focused on continual innovation as business as usual. The answer, or maybe the right questions, might be in our customers and in our team — or maybe just from those flashes of insight you discover in yourself if you make the time. Being ready to make hard choices, and recognising that cherished piece of brilliance you came up with all those years ago, that has fuelled your business, is now about as glamorous and alluring as a pencil — maybe that’s the way to remain curious, not judgemental, and keep yourself open to whatever tomorrow is going to bring. Thank you, gentlemen, I hope that did some justice to what you’ve shared. It remains to say, of course, a huge thank you to Antony.
Antony: Thank you, Ben. Thank you, Alex.
Ben: And of course a huge thank you to Alex Moore.
Alex: Thank you, guys. You’ve left me thinking about a few things today, which is always good — maybe more questions than answers, but pinging around my head. Anyway, thank you.
Ben: Maybe so, maybe so. And of course, thank you to you, dear listener, for joining us. If this has fired up some neurons for you to have some thinking of your own, we’d love to hear it — please always get in touch, just drop us a line, email address in our bios on all major podcast platforms. But until next time, I’ve been Ben Thomas. This has been Founder Hacks. Thanks so much for listening. Founder Hacks is brought to you by Atomex — bespoke support for the startup-to-scale-up journey. Editing is by Paul Stevens, and music is by Reuven. Join us again soon for more Founder Hacks.
From #founderhacks: S4 Ep2: Adapting to Change: AI, Generational Shifts, and Continuous Innovation, 11 March 2026. This material may be protected by copyright.
